How to learn Gaelic

Thoir beachd

Beachd le Alasdair Maolchriosd 23 an t-Òg-mhìos 2010 aig 2:10pm

... Ciamar a rinn thu sin ... [Gabh mo leathsgeul!]

Beachd le Alasdair Maolchriosd 23 an t-Òg-mhìos 2010 aig 1:05pm

Tha mi a' creidsinn gur e deasbaireachd bhrìghmhor a th'ann a' seo, agus chan ann airson na Gàidhlig a-mhàin. Aig a' cheud dol a-mach, seo agaibh pìos as fiù a leughadh, ma dh'fhaoite :

http://www.zompist.com/whylang.html

What I mean is that "doing classes" in a place where it isn't used as a community language will more or less just be a hobby ... Find out where Gaelic is geographically and go there physically.
Gu dhearbh fhéin, ach chan urrainn dhuinn uile a bhith a' fuireach anns na Innse Gall!

I had a network of people helping me acquire Welsh - I never had to spend free time or even work in English. I even forget how to speak English normally.
'S dòcha gu'n robh thu gu math fortanach, eadhon leis a' Chuimrich, agus bhiodh glé dhoirbh sin a dheanamh a-thaobh na Gàidhlig. Carson a rinn thu sin, co-dhiù? Carson a bhiodh luchd na Cuimrich a' bruidhinn an cànain fhéin leas neach digymraeg, nach bhiodh 'gan tuigsinn?

Beachd le William Knox 17 an Giblean 2010 aig 8:46am

Gaelic orthography. So many people complain about it. I don't know why. Gaelic has a logical spelling system. Far more regular than that of English. The fact that it's different from English really seems to throw people off for some reason. Try Cyrillic and also Chinese. Then with an open mind look at English as well. English orthography is a mess. Thank God Gaelic has such a regular spelling system.

Beachd le William Knox 17 an Giblean 2010 aig 8:40am

La math dhaoibh uile. Sa Bheurla a ni mi an teachdaireachd seo, mar bidh i airson luchd ionnsachaidh na Gaidhlig. All of the comments here seem quite wise and valid in their own ways. Having acquired a few languages myself, including Welsh fluently, I will comment. Of course learning Gaelic is different from learning Spanish. But my opinion is that the difference is really small. If you wish to acquire gaelic, your possibilities are narrower than for Spanish. What I mean is that "doing classes" in a place where it isn't used as a community language will more or less just be a hobby. If you are serious about it, you won't be concerned about getting a piece of paper saying you acquired or studied the language. So, no certificates. Also, don't pay money. Paying money doesn't work some kind of magic in the brain. Go straight for the jugular. Find out where Gaelic is geographically and go there physically. Go straight to the people who are themselves motivated to speak with you only in Gaelic - NO exceptions. If at the beginning, you don't understand some words - great. The world will not end. Switching to English to understand a few things here and there is pointless really. Why bother understanding those few things? So, motivation, geographical location - and zero or almost zero usage of other languages, such as English. I had a network of people helping me acquire Welsh - I never had to spend free time or even work in English. I even forget how to speak English normally.

For those of you who are serious about acquiring a language - this is how you do it. Keep your head OUT of books. Go and USE the langiuage starting now with those who are motivated to help you - and they will be happy to, as they are going to get another Gaelic speaker for them to talk to as well. Fluency will come very very quickly when you are immersed. Forget about courses. These are pastimes.

Beachd le Nìall Beag 18 am Màrt 2009 aig 4:37pm

Àdhamh,
"I think the best possible thing you could do would be to absolutely maul the spelling system before you go any further"

I disagree. I feel that a spelling system can only be properly learnt once you know the sound a grapheme (letter or combination of letters) represents, and you can only learn the sound by using it in different contexts.

I started with written and spoken forms simultaneously, and it always felt to me like I wasn't "reading", but "decoding"; so I taught myself to speak from reading, but I later had to teach myself to read from speaking. If you get my drift.

Now that's all well and good, but I've met learners of many, many languages who get so caught up on the process of "decoding" that they never, ever learn to read fluently, and the culprit can only be excessive early exposure to the written for.

I may disagree with Dàibhidh and Fionnlaigh on many points, but I'm in wholehearted agreement that language is first and foremost a spoken phenomenon!

Of course, I diverge from them on one very fundamental point: I reckon that to properly learn pronunciation you need to be told what to do in a language you understand -- and that means complete immersion is a non-starter in my book. I'm happy to be proved wrong, mind, but until I am I'll assume I'm right. ;-)

When you talk about the written form as "something to attach your mental picture of Gaelic to"... well, I think that's a matter of the introduction of an over-large vocabulary at an early stage -- overload the student's memory and they can't spontaneously recall words so you have to introduce mnemonics, and writing can be recalled as a visual mnemonic. The alternative is just to use fewer words, so the student can remember them. Think of the tortoise and the hare -- slow and steady wins the race. Written courses cram, whereeas immersive and audio-only courses are forced by the medium to stick to a certain pace.

Beachd le Nìall Beag 18 am Màrt 2009 aig 4:22pm

Dàibhidh: :-))))

But how about this: Cogadh nan Cùrsaichean, BBC Alba. TIP vs Ùlpan vs SMO. Trì seachdainean, trì cùrsaichean... có bhitheas na bhuannaiche?

Beachd le Dàibhidh Grannd 18 am Màrt 2009 aig 3:00pm

"Well how about another experiment? Instead of giving money to the Sun newspaper for adverts what if Bòrd na Gàidhlig chose 20 determined beginners and locked them in a hotel with Dàibhidh for eight weeks? They could then all go live on Radio nan Gaidheal with Coinneach at 0900am the first Monday after the eight week course. We'd know for sure then :-) "

Des I your style. Here's an even better one. We ask Finlay to learn Maoiri or Hawaian to fluency using TIP and then lock you and him in a room for 200 hours and see how fluent you both are at then end. Now that would be an experiment. Forget BnaG, I'd fund it myself, just for the crack!

Sin thu a charaid. Gun soirbhich cùisean leat,

Dàibhidh

Beachd le Àdhamh Ó Broin 26 an Gearran 2009 aig 12:22am

Richard Raw: "I think where I went wrong in the beggining in terms of learning Gaelic was to be bombarded with the entire Gaelic spelling system all at once. It knocked my confidence, and so it took a few years for me to grasp even the very basics"

I see where you're coming from there sir, but i don't think the spelling system is difficult at all. It's so much easier than English it's difficult for me to put a fine enough point on it. English has the most ridiculously irregular spelling system i have ever come across -in fact, it's practically abortive in terms of trying to pronounce the written English word.

Gaelic on the other hand is almost entirely streamlined, with a few exceptions, and as long as you know how a certain vowel of consonant combination should sound (i learned the sounds and how to pronouce Gaelic completely in three weeks -not that my blas was great by any stretch after that, but i knew how things should sound!), you can just about mock it up without hearing the word spoken -again, as long as you've heard Gaelic and have an idea how it should sound in general (dialectical differences aside lol)....

I think the best possible thing you could do would be to absolutely maul the spelling system before you go any further as a luchd-toiseachaidh as once you've got it, there's no losing it.

But it must be said again! Horses for courses, many people's learning experiences are so very different....

Co-dhiù, bha an toiseach m' ionnsachadh glè chòrdadh rium, beagan nostalgia a' coimhead air ais gu ìre nuair a bha mi gun a' chanan còir!


Àdhamh

Beachd le Richard Raw 25 an Gearran 2009 aig 8:48pm

Moran taing Tim airson an artagail sin. Tha e air leth puingeil.

I'd like to add a small personal note about the actual language itself and its particular difficulty. At first I was completely self-taught in a non-Gaelic speaking community and as a complete beginner back in 1996 I recall that the single most difficult aspect of the language was the way that Gaelic is written. With the people who I teach Gaelic voluntarily I start off by teaching them spoken language and only introduce the written language gradually in more managable segments. Thus allowing them to build up their confidence. In most languages it is ideal in my own opinion to begin not with the alphabet itself, but to start by pronouncing words, commonly used words which contain sounds that do not appear in the mother-tongue of the learner (and to practice them with much repetition), and from there to go on to learn basic written forms. Although now a fluent speaker I am still learning many of the intrequacies in pronunciation between the different Gaelic speaking areas, something which can be mastered at a much later date, long after the ability to effectively communicate is firmly established. I agree with you that in the initial stages of the learning of the language that confidence is essential. I think where I went wrong in the beggining in terms of learning Gaelic was to be bombarded with the entire Gaelic spelling system all at once. It knocked my confidence, and so it took a few years for me to grasp even the very basics. That's where institutions like evening classes leading on to courses like the Cursa Comais at SMO are so important. Of course for those who do live in an area where Gaelic is spoken, learners are at a huge advantage. I remember my first six weeks at SMO, I had been teaching myself for five years, and so had a lot of theory in my head, and a good amount of vocabulary, but I had never before 2001 practiced speaking Gaelic in a Gaelic speaking area. I remember being quite head-strong, insisting that no-one spoke English to me for my first six weeks. People who I couldn't begin to understand a fortnight into the first year gradually became clearer. I would say that it took six weeks of no other language but Gaelic for this to happen. I still view those first six weeks as one of the most important stages to me aquiring fluency. That's where I believe immersion is so important. Normally I would write in Gaelic, but on this subject matter I think it's important that complete beginners can read what I have to say too.

Tha mi 'n dochas gu bheil am PhD a' dol gu math leat. A bheil moran bliadhnaichean agad fhathast ri dol? Bidh mi fhein deiseil leis an MA am bliadhna. Tha mi a' rannsachadh leighisean uisge ann am Barraigh mar chuspair. Tha e air leth inntinneach. Chan eil mi an duil tuilleadh studaidh a dheanamh co-dhiu airson greis as deidh seo.

Le gach beannachd

Richard

Beachd le Àdhamh Ó Broin 22 an Gearran 2009 aig 6:56pm

Niall: "Not to mention the simple fact that you have already learned at least one language and have learned to avoid the direct word-to-word mapping that stymies most learners"

Possibly the most difficult thing to overcome. But what it takes is an insane determination. Rather than grasping the Gaelic, it's the letting go of the English that's the most important part. A friend of mine who's been struggling with beginners Gaelic for a year now once said to me:

"The problem with my Gaelic is my English"

Never a truer word!


Àdhamh
:)

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